Marina on Spanish Women and Equality
by Ben Curtis
Marina just left a long comment on our recent article about Spanish women and their inherent ‘feistiness’, known here as carácter. I think it is a valuable contribution, and worth posting here:
“Of course there are plenty of Spanish women who are not fiesty, but funnily enough, if I look at a lot of our foreign friends that have a Spanish girlfriend/wife, without exception they are all strong and full of Spanish character 
I think to look at the reason for this, Franco or no Franco, we have to look back at least 30 years, and even a bit longer. For a person around my age (32) the difference in freedom and opportunities that our mothers had in their youth compared to ours is massive (I reckon that even my grandmother enjoyed more freedom than my mother when she was young). Being able to see how women have worked for their men and children, giving all of their time in usually not very rewarding tasks, makes one appreciate much more the freedom and opportunities that women enjoy nowadays, and I guess that makes us very protective and defensive about it. I guess what happens in general is that we apply the same protection to other matters in life as well, for example if someone jumps the queue. But here we should also take into account that Spanish society is a complaining society: The Spanish, in general, love complaining and do so, both men and women, in a much direct way than people from other countries.
Going back to equality… from what I’ve seen in England, for English women my age equality is not a big issue, mainly because they take it for granted. And even if in Spain, at least when I was a teenager, we looked at the North European women with admiration regarding equality, I’ve seen a few examples of chauvinist behaviour in young English couples that I wouldn’t accept, nor would most of my friends. One good example is taking your husband’s name when you marry. I know it is a cultural thing, but in Spain most of the women would laugh at that possibility. Even today parents can choose the order of their children’ surnames - people in Spain take two surnames, usually the father’s one comes first and then the mother’s one, but nowadays you can choose to put the mother’s one first.”
Posted: September 16th, 2007 under Spanish Culture and News.
Comments: 17
Comments
Comment from Gary
Time: September 16, 2007, 12:26 pm
Trust me, there is ‘carácter’ in the women England, but I think the fuse is longer and explosions are more likely to happen privately and retrospectively.
For a bloke the secret to a long lasting relationship is to recognise the symptoms of the buildup and act to avert the ensuing explosion.
As Gill says “I shouldn’t have to tell you you should know”
This is a fiendishly clever ruse which ensures that more than the minimum possible effort is put in by us largely idle, feckless, owt will do kinda guys, to ensure that all the bases are covered and domestic harmony is maintained.
Points can of course be banked - for instance if I Hoover the stairs for no particular reason, or clean some lampshades without actually being asked, it may go unmentioned but I just know its entered on the ledger and keeps my ‘looking like your bothered’ account in the black, thus averting any techtonic buildup that might lead to a quake…
Comment from Gary
Time: September 16, 2007, 12:39 pm
Update - I have just cleaned the lampshades on the spotlights in the kitchen incase she reads the above post… 
Comment from leftbanker
Time: September 16, 2007, 12:47 pm
Thanks for the interesting insight into this aspect of Spanish life. I haven’t been here long enough to have figured any of this out on my own. I know that the roles for men and women are constantly changing in America. I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that people in the U.S. leave home at an early age (I was 17) and stay single for a long time. This means that you get used to doing everything for yourself. My mother showed me how to use a washing machine when I was 11 and I washed all of my own clothes from that point on. If there is anything like traditional roles for men and women these days, I don’t have any idea as to what those might entail.
Comment from jonk
Time: September 16, 2007, 1:58 pm
So… now Spain is full of youngsters that are taking both Mum and Dads name
When those youngsters marry whose name does the kid get ? All four? The Dad’s dad and the Mum’s mum?
Comment from Palmer
Time: September 16, 2007, 3:28 pm
Jonk’s comment is exactly about what I have been wondering. In my own family’s case, my youngest niece kept her own last name when she married and her husband’s as well (not hyphenated). They have two kids, a son and a daughter whom both we assign their Dad’s last name on things like birthday cards and such. But in other families, how does this work? This will make investigating a family tree a bit trickier in the future. However it turns out, I’m all for being able to chose which last name you would like to be called - maternal or paternal. Despite what Mother or Father decide for their children’s names when they are born, maybe a child may officially chose when they reach age 16 or 18?
Comment from Ben
Time: September 16, 2007, 3:48 pm
“For a bloke the secret to a long lasting relationship is to recognise the symptoms of the buildup and act to avert the ensuing explosion.” - In Spain there is no time for such evasive action, the build up and explosion are often simultaneous!
“As Gill says "I shouldn’t have to tell you you should know—
Sounds familiar
Comment from Marina
Time: September 16, 2007, 3:57 pm
@Jonk
In Spain we officially have two separate surnames. Up until recently, the rule was that the child’s first surname was the dad’s first surname and the child’s second surname was the mum’s first surname.
Example:
My dad is called Roberto Díez Roche
My mum is called Elisa Jiménez Domínguez.
I am officially Marina Díez Jiménez.
With the new law, if I was born now my parents could choose to call me Marina Díez Jiménez or Marina Jiménez Díez.
Kids often like to put all the 4 surenames (or more) together, then I would be:
Marina Díez Jiménez Roche Domínguez.
But note that in any official document you only would use two surnames.
Comment from Marina
Time: September 16, 2007, 3:58 pm
@Palmer
I guess you are right going back in the family tree is going to be a hellish task in the future!
Comment from Ed
Time: September 16, 2007, 8:54 pm
“So… now Spain is full of youngsters that are taking both Mum and Dads name
When those youngsters marry whose name does the kid get ? All four? The Dad’s dad and the Mum’s mum?”
Not now, it’s always been that way. The kid will just get the father’s and the mother’s first surname.
It’s also a pain in the ass when you go abroad. If I use both my surnames, people’ll think the first one is my middle name. My mother for instance had to give up her last name and accept my father’s, since no one would recognise them as “a family”.
Comment from ValenciaSon
Time: September 17, 2007, 12:14 am
My wife hyphenated her name because she thought it had an unusal sound. Not too many individuals with the last name Weiner-Leandro around. P.S., my wife is definitely todo terreno! I think it is an over-compensation but I’m not allowed to say that
Comment from ValenciaSon
Time: September 17, 2007, 1:53 am
Marina, I’m surprised your mother didn’t take your father’s last name. I thought women of that generation did that.
Comment from Edith
Time: September 17, 2007, 8:13 am
In Holland many women of the younger generation keep their own name, and a new law has made it possible for parents to bestow the mother’s name on their children should they wish to do so. Most parents still ópt for the father’s name though.
The custom of women taking their husband’s name has always struck me as weird. It seems to be a remnant of bygone days when men were officially the head of the family, and when women couldn’t even handle their own financial affairs. To apply some reverse psychology: would any man be willing to take his wife’s name? 
As far as children are concerned, the Spanish custom - i.e. inheriting both your parents’ names - makes so much more sense to me. In this way, the mother’s name does not get lost. After all, it’s the mother who carries the child in her womb for nine months and not the father. For this reason, matrilineal descent is the norm in some cultures, i.e. the Jews and the Iroquois.
Comment from ValenciaSon
Time: September 17, 2007, 11:34 pm
Yeah but patrilineal dna expresses despite the lack of uterus in the male of the species.
Comment from Edith
Time: September 18, 2007, 8:07 am
:D
Hence, the double surnames in Spanish!
Comment from Bill Shields
Time: September 20, 2007, 5:27 am
If you listen to the Notes in Spanish podcast you will know that a tell-tale sign of Spanish character is about to happen when you hear Marina begin to address Ben with the phrase, ‘Pues hombre.’
Comment from Ben
Time: September 20, 2007, 7:15 am
Well spotted Bill!
Comment from BrianA
Time: September 20, 2007, 12:30 pm
@Ed - As an Englishman I get the reverse in Spain. I have two nombres / christian names and one apellido / surname giving Brian William ABRAHAMS. I’m getting used to being Señor William
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